Unknown Speaker 00:00 Progress

Unknown Speaker 05:54 Yo

Unknown Speaker 06:00 yo.

Unknown Speaker 06:44 Oh yeah oh yeah

Pak H. Chau 06:50 my guy that

Unknown Speaker 06:53 will make it

Pak H. Chau 06:56 oh shit die. David I guess I think Ali's eunuch in Idaho, Ohio telegram good group like even make us late haga.

Matthew Tsang 07:15 So how am i Oh god, I'm a Google AI.

Pak H. Chau 07:19 Oh, it's so good. It's so good. I spent so much time on it but it's so good it's high volume and cost of the language we are going to carry on as a continent we're going to build it building it but you know what I can actually already right now I'm not exaggerating, right? If you give me two days, all right. Well, you build for the future.

Matthew Tsang 08:02 Say all day high cables are high.

Unknown Speaker 08:07 Gives a man and last idea in how you

Matthew Tsang 08:12 can walk in see Tony era it's also only an oddity they realize a high court or not I don't need all kinds of measures. So they use an

Pak H. Chau 08:25 absolute absolutely tell my content that dipping my toe homology I want you to experience that No, I don't like coding software. It's not meant to do those things so you have a lot more. Understand what you need to work on. Let's say Right. Understanding what you need to work hard so for the high wire you got sick to coach I hope could we hold unreliable

Matthew Tsang 09:08 everyone has said times on their level being unreliable. I mean you are unreliable at times I'm reliable at times right you just up on the

Pak H. Chau 09:27 main thing you want to look at is whenever he goes into this like to basically just asked as their software strategy right Am I one? Yes, Milan? Yes.

Matthew Tsang 09:48 Please, yeah, I know. I know. I know. Yeah. That's that we know that right. That's not new.

Pak H. Chau 09:53 I'm sorry. Ila you got to you got to tow the highway in Taiwan. Oh, man. Hold on inflammation hole black hole deep. Jaco stem right. hole deep desert

Matthew Tsang 10:10 for resource Jamila. Let's see your toys. No toys.

Pak H. Chau 10:21 Look strategy. This is a strategy right? This is the best strategy to target AI bot extract cyber information. Right?

Unknown Speaker 10:31 I thought my

Pak H. Chau 10:35 comment was very smart. Now. If you ask a question, and you respond with an audio note, right. The bot knows that you're responding to an audio note in the context of both messages.

Matthew Tsang 10:51 Okay. All

Pak H. Chau 10:57 right. Let's move on

Unknown Speaker 11:04 right

Pak H. Chau 11:15 could you know can you reformat your answer in a way that I want it

Matthew Tsang 11:23 Yes, I understand. That's the intention.

Pak H. Chau 11:27 So this is amazing. But what's also great what also we need to do now is to basically lay your alarm to high demand young lady tools Laiho design solid our meetings and workshops and this is what we have to do. Use it, use it and design the shit out of it. Because if you have something like that, a I make a tool my audit tool the tools up or they hate young AI let hotel have optimized auditor had to come the actual use cases for AI Milady

Matthew Tsang 12:11 I said we're all that high customer facing other people facing. Absolutely.

Pak H. Chau 12:19 I know the challenges are facing the challenge how you go late. Also, we will go that well. Very funny way. Right. It's like, Hi, David. David documented. Yep, that was a problem. But in the age of AI, that's no longer a problem. Right? So no longer problem. So. Okay, so this is what we got to do. We got to basically do a bit of a check in first so that I just want to get everyone's opinions check in let's go with Matthew let's go with Pak let's go with David. Yo, yo, y'all. How are you feeling better?

David Bovill 13:10 I'm feeling okay, I got energy but I'm hot and sweaty and a little bit achy. Nothing's major at all. I'm hoping that it's nothing and I'm just just been for a walk and I haven't had that much exercise recently. But

Pak H. Chau 13:27 yeah, we I mean, we're gonna we can go for a swim when you come to a port difficult it's really close to the

Unknown Speaker 13:33 I mean, the main thing is you've got to beat me at the table tennis I want to be humiliated

Pak H. Chau 13:39 trying to get a table maybe we'll get find some sort of a table tennis table to put on the terrorists because he's Winnipeg apparently so yeah. Good. So Matthew cannot turn on the camera because he is having a bit of a holiday is a holiday today.

Matthew Tsang 13:57 Labor Day Labor Day, Labor Day.

Pak H. Chau 14:01 A Labor Party protests just outside my house. Very nice. Okay, good. So what I want to do now is very simple. Just do a very simple check in I just want to know exactly like from everybody how you're feeling what you did last week and how you feeling about this week. Matthew, you go first.

Matthew Tsang 14:23 Alright, so last week, I was assigned some research and thanks Pak for coming up with also the pipeline and the exact description of the markets and segments. So nine different things I have to research for six main certain market segments. And I was focusing on writing some sort of AI integrated solutions so that I can just ask the machine to do all the basic work first, and then I after one round of all the research based on GPT and I am finding that that so that it can give us exactly what we need, including the insights and the dangers of the six markers multiplied by nine types of research for so I mean, I am in the I'm now in the in the sauce of actually refining the my code for doing that. And then next thing I will integrate the answers into the wiki.

Pak H. Chau 15:43 I think we can, we should maybe spend some time talking about the next steps.

Matthew Tsang 15:53 Yeah. Okay. Yeah, we can talk about

Pak H. Chau 15:56 anything else. Anything else that you any interesting thing you encounter as well.

Matthew Tsang 16:02 In terms of work, or work, or anything? Well actually GPT start off you have to manage GPT so that it doesn't come up with imaginary stuff, right? Because GPT basically predicts what test should come next based on France and you know, what's being written and you got to manage that process with the right crumbs and stuff. So it's sometimes comes up with non factual things and just manage that.

Pak H. Chau 16:40 Okay, David, let's.

David Bovill 16:44 Okay. Thanks. So much. The aim, really, for me last week was to work on the software side of things, particularly to work on the Mac Mini that I have here, set it back up and integrate it with the video, the way that we can use and integrate AI into the system and how the 1000 the discussions that are in how we can bring together that kind of arts Creative Conversation with the ability to pop up a dowel, so how those visuals work with a map to the future maybe and to be able to demo that. This weekend. Basically, I kind of I would say, more or less 90% utterly failed on that task. Because I probably only spent about an hour programming on the actual laptop, which is what I really thought that I was going to do. And instead what I did much more was engage communities that are relevant to that path and start writing down a specification and explore that process. Together with pack and chat GPT if you'd like. So, it was a process where for instance, I had a conversation with the wiki community which I haven't been up like I used to twice a week for seven years, setting up that wiki, having a conversation with Pete and the graphing community, setting up those relationships and setting up the sort of massive wiki aspect of the deployment, which is very basic. It's not not exactly it's not adding the stuff that I wanted to add. And then also following up with the people that I met at the the RSA event on sort of mapping a future launch and discussing and getting a little community together to deal with financial people and hedge funds. And there's probably a couple of other things I could describe but ended up being much more socially talking to people talking about the events, organizing those on and trying to focus on strategizing those meetings. With what we can practically make the software that we would use to do it. So yet again, I feel heartbroken. I haven't managed to sit down and for instance, sit down with Matt here on the creative side. Have that meeting with the musicians in fairs with other artists. Look at the visual stuff. I had also had a meeting with Lenny from the sphere. And that didn't go well. So that was quite sort of upsetting. I don't think she's in a good place right? Now. To me, I might be wrong, but I don't think she's ready to sort of launch into things. Excuse me. On a personal side of things. This weekend. I basically I got extremely drained. I was supposed to be having a weekend away with my son and talking about family issues and that didn't happen. The meeting with Lenny went badly. The ongoing situation with Alex and him not paying me back. Not feeling like I'm having the right kind of creative conversation or dealing having time to deal with Matt here on the art music side. They all just kind of got too much with me over the weekend. So I just kind of turned off my devices and watch too much Netflix which wasn't necessarily the best thing to do. So

Unknown Speaker 20:59 I'm feeling much more. I'm feeling pretty clear and focused now. And one of the things I think

David Bovill 21:07 thanks, by the way for your messages back. I think one of the things that I learned was PAC on is slightly pulling back in terms of getting a bit more realistic with the short term sort of deliverables and the readiness for people to jump in and engage with us and getting our own internal ship done before we go out to people and offer them big, wonderful things if you like no.

Pak H. Chau 21:36 Thank you, David. Um, I feel great. I think I do feel that right now. The conversations that I feel like a lot of these David's imagination, and your knowledge is maybe I need some time alone for it to sink in a little bit. I think there were some parts that I really didn't quite get. And I had to do my own research a little bit. So I appreciate having a bit of distance at times to attempt to do that and to digest that. In Poland. I have went to a lot of different networking events that met a lot of people that I'm following up with people that can potentially help us in different areas specifically co working, specifically, getting people to join this community that we're building spaces, universities have been working on the audio API that I've shared with you guys now. Very early. Very simple. stuff in the beginning, that Matthew I'm sure Matthew can do as well. But I think what's really interesting and powerful is that we can start using these workflows and testing out these workflows and and I definitely want to basically do this. This is how I feel I think we need to talk a little bit of the internal strategy and just have a riff. Alright, just no pressure. But just I just want to hear what everyone has has have to say I've read through some of the software strategy that you you start to write on Monday, Tuesday, I think is it makes a lot of sense. It's not complete yet, but I think we can work together to complete that and eating the dog food strategy as well. But on top of that, and focusing on using things that can integrate with one another i i try using color to slow right now for you know the database is too slow. You put things in and you want to basically try to get it out. It's not there yet, right? It takes time it table instantly is super fast, right? We can also use other options but air table allow me to read scripts inside of it so I can do all sorts of funky stuff. So it's great so that I do want more synchronization on the southwest strategy with David. I do want for example, Matthew. I do want you to perhaps find a way to present something right because I think you in the middle of this kind of research but I feel like if you can find a way let's say for example we are not expecting like everything but I would say if you can find a way to present a tell a story of we found and some insights that you have and allow us in in terms of the process of doing it that will help a lot. And yeah, I mean, we just need to come together agree on the formal strategy. I don't I feel like right now even though we're aligned, we need to have this kind of strategy discussion. So then we are actually properly bought in to the things that we're committed to. And we both we all feel that we are committed to them and that's that would be sort of my check in as well. So before we go further, I was wondering if we can talk a little bit today about is there anything I would say maybe I suppose I was I would like to talk about a little bit on the software strategy a little bit on the next steps. With the audio AI studio AI studio AI because you've been started to work on it right? And now what can we what steps could we take do we take some steps towards the studio AI and setting that up? Maybe. And then also Matthew want to talk about the research next steps and then strategy strategy week. And wanted to talk about how we're going to do strategy week? And yes, they

David Bovill 25:54 Yeah, got four headings for strategy headings here that I just jotted down for strategy. So I've got pipeline strategy. I've got community leader strategy. I've got the one you just mentioned, which was software or the two you mentioned which is software strategy and studio AI strategy.

Pak H. Chau 26:18 Okay, software pipeline, and

David Bovill 26:22 sorry, the first one was pipeline. The second one was community leader strategy.

Pak H. Chau 26:27 Yep, and then software and software and

David Bovill 26:29 then studio AI strategy. So I thought we could just maybe go around the circle for each of those. Maybe there's some one missing now I'm sure there's some missing there but that's what came to my mind.

Pak H. Chau 26:47 Matt Matthew do love you. And I'd

David Bovill 26:54 like to start with pipeline software software at the end and really

Pak H. Chau 27:00 just put that let's say Matthew, on mute.

Matthew Tsang 27:09 Yeah, I was thinking is this a pipeline? Is that the is that the people and the things that we're doing in terms of three four steps or?

David Bovill 27:21 Yeah, I don't know. It's a general heading for continuing what you were discussing outlining and figuring out how that fits in with. Let's say what I do what Pak does what Moti does in general. So it's just extending that conversation. I want to have more.

Matthew Tsang 27:41 Yeah, I mean, I want to I want to talk about what's happened last week with regards to some of our deadlines and some goals, leading up to let's say, September for the document. Share boss last week. I think that is that's really the drive right. So there's the high level stuff.

David Bovill 28:01 Yeah. Might be good if we could have that up on screen while we're talking about the strategy.

Pak H. Chau 28:10 Yeah, yep. Yep, yep. Do I have it here? I think I might have it with him in second. day when I put this okay, I'm gonna share this on. I can share this document or i can i Okay, so I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna share this document first. Take a look at this. And then I'm also going to not going to show you the minutes I will have that timeline strategy in front of everybody. So we can discuss that. And then but I want to go back to what we just talked about. And talk about today's meeting first, which is here. Studio A and we'll talk about that research. Next steps. I think if we didn't talk about the research next steps we can at the end,

Unknown Speaker 29:55 right, pipeline strategy for me. Yeah,

Pak H. Chau 29:58 I think so too, but I just want to make sure that if we didn't then just make it more clear

Unknown Speaker 30:03 just is a sub step in pipeline.

Pak H. Chau 30:12 And and then also I want to properly talk about the next few days and the next few days being right, the May 4 event. What we're going to do so I'm just going to put that here may both event and then when it comes to strategy, all the strategy discussions are great. But then maybe perhaps we can also talk just a little bit about what that the scheduling of the strategist, strategy schedule strategy sessions any feedback on these on the structure right now?

David Bovill 31:10 This one I wouldn't mind a very quick one, which I would call I mean, I'm just gonna put it down which is gathering of tribes strategy.

Pak H. Chau 31:30 Just put it in there as well. Okay. Okay, okay. Which one should we talk about? First, should we talk about these having these strategy discussions first, should we take a look at existing documents? First, we talk about me for first in those of the order please give me some feedback. Guys, Matthew and David please

David Bovill 32:02 I'm not sure about review strategy document. It sounds like it might be too much to put in here. But explain what you mean by that.

Pak H. Chau 32:10 The document that I wrote last week, in terms of the sprint timeline, and also in terms of the phase breakdown, I just send it out in telegram but I can also show you here is this one. This is the existing strategy and phase one, phase two all the way up to February 2024. I think Okay. Okay. She'll look at that first and then talk about your strategy. Yes, okay. Yes. Okay, great.

David Bovill 32:49 Can you I'm actually going to switch to the obsidian document myself. And have that on screen rather than zoom. So I'm hearing you, but I'm not looking. I'm going to have a go at that. And I want to have a look at where that document is. What was that document called?

Pak H. Chau 33:12 I think it's just called timeline. And strategy. I think it's called timelines.

David Bovill 33:20 Got it? I thought that I've got it now here. Yeah. So I've got an upcoming sprint timeline, Facebook plan, etc. So if you call out what we're looking at, I want to actually be able to look in here and maybe type into this document.

Pak H. Chau 33:36 So if I just basically what

David Bovill 33:40 I'm just saying, I if you call out what's next, let's have a quick go through this document and just call out visually what you're at because it's clear for me if I'm I've got the full screen here and I want to actually look at the real document rather than the the screen share in zoom if you'd like.

Pak H. Chau 33:58 Oh, yeah. So why don't we all take a look at it now for a couple of minutes and then we just talk about what's Yeah. Okay. Everyone do the same. Okay, that's probably

Unknown Speaker 34:15 just a quick question. Yep. No, it's okay.

Unknown Speaker 35:55 Okay, I've read it. Okay.

Pak H. Chau 36:03 Matt have we read it?

Matthew Tsang 36:10 Oh, yeah, I read it. I have.

Pak H. Chau 36:14 Okay, okay. Okay. So,

Matthew Tsang 36:16 the only problem is that if I needed on my screen, I can mute and unmute my mic, because it's the switch between.

Pak H. Chau 36:25 Okay, let's go through just maybe around the back bus, I guess. What do we think about it? Matthew? You want to just stop right there?

Unknown Speaker 36:37 Yeah, I think

Matthew Tsang 36:40 I'm okay with most of what you say we do. I was looking at more. As I was thinking the only thing I want to set the Select and there's the Select process of what Moti is just do for phase two is actually a crucial and also a ceremonial thing at the end of phase one. So we actually I feel that we actually need to say hey, this is the end of phase one. We, we gathered all the information we need we do the certain steps in that step 24 right off of 24 steps, and then we embark on the journey thereafter, which is the except the point one or phase two. So that's the only main feedback that I have is that point one or phase two is actually a thing on its own between phase one and phase two.

Pak H. Chau 37:43 You want to separate the product Genesis scoping, design, a product plan that ticked out the product plan,

Matthew Tsang 37:53 right. Yeah, that's that's what I mean. Yeah, that is a thing that we have to go through as Moti is not phase one or phase two.

Pak H. Chau 38:02 So almost like have to make it more ceremonial. Now we are designing the product based on the market data, and now we are going for it something like that.

Matthew Tsang 38:11 Yeah, something like that. Okay.

Pak H. Chau 38:16 Anything else in terms of phase one and what we want to do phase one

Matthew Tsang 38:24 No, but I think some maybe when we I don't know maybe when we talk about pipeline, we will set some dates for KPI setting, etc. So how many people do we want to talk to right? How many what the amount and the quality of the market data etc. So, so that actually makes it more meaningful instead of just you know, but but we need to define a time to decide it further down the line. If we're not deciding now.

Pak H. Chau 39:01 Okay, we'll try to decide if this was okay. If that's it, I'll just stop the timer. I'll start the timer again, David.

David Bovill 39:10 Yeah. Okay, so I've made some notes. I'm just gonna push those up, actually. I don't know. So, yeah, to add to this, yeah, I really liked the document. First of all, I think it's a very concise and good summary. It almost feels too short. It feels like it's going to be missing something. The things that came to my mind that feel missing. So the first one I had the it's kind of missing artists. In other words, it's, it's somehow missing the involvement and the participation of the creative creative industry, people in creative industry processes. I know it's kind of meta there because we're we're mapping them but even with regard to that, we're sort of moving a bit further away from that, though, I'd like to see some more explicit processes that include artists and artists thinking in our internal discussions and our planning processes and our milestones. That was the first point. The second point is, of course, an overlapping MVP, prior to September. In other words, I've got sub points here, which is sorry, I'm also typing and so we go, which is I believe that we should be engaging, rather than it being a Gantt chart in which phase one starts and then finishes and there's a ceremony and then phase two start since September, which is a focus on the MVP. I believe we need to but it's controversial. I appreciate having a slightly not slightly, very explicitly structured, minimal. Sorry, I'm correcting spelling while talking. And especially structured, overlapping. So the work on the MVP, I believe we should be quite smart about how we do that. And we should be doing that before the August 15 engagement. of coders at CCC and so forth. So, I've said that we need to shift the kind of work on on on on on building stuff, so that it sort of starts a bit earlier than might make sense and overlaps. under that heading. I've also talked about possibly like not possibly it feels right to talk about component a strategy. So rather than defining, I don't know the exact product before September, we have a fairly good idea of some of the components that might need to be done. And that we do that in this kind of small DAO based way. And that we can then put several of these components together and what we might discuss as a product and a product focus around the beachhead market after September. So there might be something worthwhile thinking about in terms of a component based strategy, which would allow us to build some of the things like the minimal viable collaboration infrastructure, and these other things prior to defining a core product after and the last point two other points here, internal product versus collaborative product development is a confusion over that I think we should basically be very clear internally about what a collaborative development process might be. And I agree with what Matthew said in terms of targets, which to me at the moment are very clear 20 community leaders and 100 community leaders or spaces, what exactly that means. I think we should put that down.

Pak H. Chau 43:23 Okay. Let me start this again. I think we, the I think we at some point need this overarching structure that allows us to separate the fund a little bit. I would actually prefer if we actually start move, I would say phase one, and actually do phase one a little bit quicker. So I think right now, we have phase one. Let's say for example, in September, I actually think we should actually have it done at the end of at the end of July. At the end of July. I think we can manage that. I think we can do that. We have to define what that means. But then we should then maybe move would it be able to build out some sort of a specification before CCC Camp so that we can actually understand exactly what we're looking for. That involves building the battleships, the voyage, whatever we want to call it in a way where when we go there, we are very solid and we have a very clear specification about who we want to get involved to build what we want them to build. I think the research process can be expedited I think we have to set some sort of a parameters about how much we have to go out and actually talk to real people in real markets that that's that that is a key because I think right now we it's about the balance between the people that we want to get on board which are going to be partners, but it's also about understanding not just from listening to the insights of the partners but even though we do that and that should be a major part of it. There needs to be a balanced in between maybe perhaps arranging those partners for opportunities to talk to the real end user of that particular market. And for us to really be able to gain insight. So the way I'm looking at phase one is almost like, hey, so we've got all these potential partners that we can get involved in and they can collaborate. And part of what they should be doing right now for collaboration is not do more what most people do, which is okay, well we'll just start basically building which is basically the people that we want, starting now, but also starting from September more more more intensely. And right now, I think we should then also just get these people to have the responsibility of understanding the market and mapping the future. Understanding and going out to these communities and hosting these events and asking these questions. So then we can have these sort of ballot strategy by the end of July. We know okay, this is the segment this is the product that we can build. I think the key I really want to talk about is right now we have different strands in terms of because we have different product ideas. I think at what I really would like and I want to have clear objection or agreement on this point, which is at some point, it all comes together as one product. I don't know if it's going to be as unified as for example a product like chaos. But let's say for example, if we have different elements, that different ideas right now like then still have, like fractal like different ideas that we have right now. That we can pursue. It could be we pursue one of them and we say we just disregard the rest or we can basically during this sort of strategy window, product design window, what we have to do is to commit and say okay, so we let's let's decide on what that one product is. And within that product, there could be multiple different features. There could be multiple different components, but it's one product and everyone has the same script. You have the same script, David, I have the same script pack. Matthew has the same script. We go out there we talk to the investor, the investors understand what we're building is this one thing, and right now is sort of like we know it's one thing but they don't know that. But we have to be confident enough for them to say no, they also know that because it makes sense. It's not like a very complicated difficult thing for them to understand. So that's what I would say is to have this sort of phase in which we can unify this product strategy. And I believe that is the key of raising that funding, even though they could we can have multiple different investment strategies, but I want that unify product strategy somewhere sometime I would say before CCC Camp, so let me know what you think about that one.

David Bovill 48:26 For me, Well, I agree with the all every detail of the description of the landscape. It's what I would call a map and not a strategy. Okay, so I think it's important to confront more directly and earlier the main strategic options and differences, right. Yes. So for instance, like, I believe there's a way of, for instance, this, I could try and say what I've been saying all along I hope and I believe, maybe a bit more clear, is I believe there are probably three fundamental strategies we can take. And one of them is to go fast in July. And personally I have you know, really happy to do this credit based on some very quick mapping of the market segments and doing the 24 steps. Define a product and a beachhead market and laser focus on that and go for that. So that's the I don't know I'd call it the the fast product strategy. The second strategy is basically, let's really take seriously doing this 24 steps and the mapping and the podcasts and let's get actually investment and backing in doing this kind of event and going to Davos and we basically focus on I would call it the event strategy our product is is to be able to run this event and get all the different industry partners to come round doing this event and collecting of the data. And we do not choose what product we want to focus on yet. We're just going to be basically a kind of event company doing this global decentralized event. engaging people around the mapping of the future and planning people up and getting companies to invest in that structure. It's quite a kind of modest picture of what we aim at, in terms of you know, it's maybe a smaller size company and event company. But we're basically saying to ourselves that this mapping of this data and choosing what the market segment is going to take a bit more time. Let's make that a sustainable process and let's do this event. And maybe the year after given that we reach financial sustainability, we're around this event strategy before December, sometime in the year after we come up based on all this fantastic position we put ourselves in the market to collect this market data in this way. We we find that amazing business proposition and then pivot in year two towards that. And that's what I would call the event strategy. The second one, and the third one, which is the one I've been recommending recommending in a way or feeling towards or wanting to discuss, is what I could would combine is like a combination of those two in which we basically try and set up this event strategy together with partners is the sustainable business, that we have a slicing, but we kind of try and get that just running without too much input by ourselves. And we then spend maybe two thirds or something like that of our effort, looking at this stream of data that's coming through coming, you know continually through because of the events that we're taking part in the conversations we're taking part in and we use that event strategy to develop an MVP within this 12 months and spend, you know, maybe 80% of our time or two thirds of our time focusing on there. But we look for partners on this event strategy. And we're therefore in a way starting two businesses that are overlapping, one which we're a joint venture partner in which is these creative funds in these events, if you like around mapping of the future, and the second is we're really going to fund focus on a product that we're looking to develop you know, and focus on and define roundabout September to, you know, August, finance but we have a slightly overlapping timeline here now, because we can, we've got a an ongoing ability to survive at this kind of $200,000 a year level or whatever. It is based on the first business that we start the event business if you like, and we look at them as slightly overlapping strategic things that we do within this year. And I think there's three basic strategies there. Focus on product quickly and then to really do the event thing properly and slowly. And three, do this overlapping strategy. And I think we should be clear on which one we do. And I think what you described Pat pack was a kind of map of all of it. And to the extent that it's a map it's it's too messy to be what I'd call a strategy.

Pak H. Chau 54:02 Okay, I want to just quickly say something like right now to respond to that, because I want to get some clarity in terms of based on a document that that is right now. Right? What strategy category are we in right now? Like based on the document that you just read?

David Bovill 54:21 This document you're talking about is the first one of those strategies, which was quick product strategy. Right? It doesn't it isn't the either of the two strategies. And I don't like the quick product product strategy. I don't hugely dislike it. And I've mentioned this several times before I'm up for it because I've definitely got a quick rotten product in my soul, and I can run with it and it feels very flattering to run with it right but I'm because I'm sort of, and it's got certain advantages like this AI wave is coming and being fast seems to be an inherent advantage here at the moment. Lots of business people are saying what really counts is just to be fast at this time. Not to be too clever, but to be fast. And so I'm tempted by it and it seems to be your energy pack, but my sort of brain and slower intelligence says and the 24 steps says don't do that.

Pak H. Chau 55:25 I argue against what you said that my strategy is to first pot first strategy, because I'm almost saying that we are doing student using the map of the future as the pilot. So then we basically get people to collaborate, right, which is very much the second and the first strategy, get that decentralized event

David Bovill 55:49 they are they aren't second and third, do you have to choose between these strategies? Well, I think the second or the third?

Pak H. Chau 55:57 I think for example, right now, I would say from May, right? All the way up to let's say August. We do map future as a way to do the 24 steps as a way to also set up the

David Bovill 56:12 is that the third strategy or not?

Pak H. Chau 56:16 I would say up to August is the third strategy Yes.

David Bovill 56:21 No. The third strategy is a more like a two years, you know, 18 months strategy to have two overlapping businesses. One round the mapping of the events, let's say map of the future, which we do as a joint venture with other partners. And it's a long term very specifically, so you can't do it in a month. The second one is we just do the events. And we don't do a product, right. We just do map of the future in other words and run these events and sign people up. And the first one is we quickly define a product and we focus on the product. These are very different strategies they overlap. They're kind of in the same area and and but one of them is laser focus on some software product or service product very quickly, and then run with the AI wave with, you know, and the 20 foot steps to is, hey, let's really take this market segment and analysis and all this data collection and put ourselves in a really good position to do the 24 steps thoroughly in a sustainable way, but what I'd call the event strategy, and that's full on for the next 12 months, let's make the event, an annual sustainable strategy that we're running these events. You know, we go to Davos every year or whatever it is right? And the third is, hey, we can do something a bit unusual and clever in which we unlock those through the right business partnerships.

Pak H. Chau 57:53 David, I think this is the the key thing that I'm noticing right now is after right now what we have to decide right now let's say for example, what I'm kind of deciding on the meta level is saying, I think let's say for example, somewhere around August, if we don't get our shit together, because we set let's say, for example, we have 20,000 for the MVP, no matter what the MVP is, and I think that seems about right. And the reason I think that's the case is because let's say for example, after we do these three months of decentralized map performance of looking into different market segments and doing very thorough research, of potentially activating the community to agree to collaborate together on our products that needs there needs to be a decision making window there where we are saying, okay, at that moment, I think okay, the event, the decentralized events stuff is going really, really well. We need to go, you'd spend that $20,000 on that. And if we make that decision, I believe then we would have we just then at that point decide that we are going with the event production strategy, but I think I think the question for me, Oh, the other statement that I want to make, right? Is that I believe, let's say for example, somewhere around August, we need to kind of put all of the effort into kind of one basket, all of the eggs in one basket. The 20,000 I want the 20,000 to be put into that particular basket, if it is

David Bovill 59:44 what you're saying. I hear what you're saying. But I think I think you're basically kind of reiterating what I I've described as be negative as a map. You're describing you know, yeah, 20,000 Here are the details when you're describing a map, but that's not a strategy right now. The strategy is cutting things killing things, saying no, it's not that it is this and it's very very ruthless. Right. So I just described three strategies right. One and I would say one thing I don't know Matthew, if you agree with me on this, I believe you do like to hear your voice but waiting to August and having 20,000 pounds left feels like leaving the that stage of the 24 steps to reach financial status stability. Parents look perilously late, right? If we had a bigger budget and a slightly longer timeline in other six months, it feels all right but but that you know, having only between August and December to kind of get our shit together, make an MVP spend it and get finance feels too late. So why am I saying the strategy now? This is much more about like we should be deciding in the next few weeks. Between these quite radical strategies, right? And this radical strategies are let's just fucking get this event thing going and the create songs and let's make sure that we get that sustainable as a product. Right? Forget everything to do with product that Forget everything to do with software. We're going to be an event company and we're going to run this Mapathon once a year. And we're gonna do this create songs and we're gonna sign people up and we're gonna get subscriptions and we're gonna get several million dollars investment in these global decentralized event and we're gonna make that sustainable so we can continue next year, continue and and that's the event strategy cut everything else and only focused on that left the radical first. But you get the radical difference. Okay, you have to cut and choose the strategy.

Matthew Tsang 1:02:01 Hey, I'm here okay. Let me put it this way, right. I you know, often, you know, all the time I know Pak right. I've been talking to him. And I want to think as well as myself. I do think that being an entrepreneur is improper, is that there's one trait that is really important as being a Responsible Entrepreneur, in terms of how your decisions affects the you know, the past and what you know the things that you can and cannot do and etc right being responsible in terms of also your your longevity in the in the venture, right? Because you can kill your venture very quickly by taking the wrong term. And, and what I think is that, you know, if we have decided that 24 steps is the golden Bible, right, then committing to building the event company or the, you know, the, whatever their strategy is, requires me taking the 24 steps to decide whether I want to do that, and we have not done that. So I am more to us what Pak said in terms of hey, let's take until whenever say August and put the event company in the basket to be evaluated a hunch. So that would be my my take on that. But I want to also go back right before you guys respond. I want to also go back to ask right when you said the you know the strategy and strategy that the face right were we the message that we will have as a unified voice or narrative when we go speak to people? Do you mean that, you know, we will talk about our vision that says something like, Okay, we will build Google but at the moment we're building Gmail. And if you want to invest in Gmail, invest in Gmail, but if you want to invest into us as Google invest in us and Google escudo, is that what you mean?

Pak H. Chau 1:04:33 I don't know. Maybe. But I think when it comes to this unifying product strategy, is really understanding all of the different user groups and personas within that sort of product and then understanding that, hey, different people can come in at different in different ways. But they all contribute to one product, and we don't have to be shy about it. We don't have to tell

Matthew Tsang 1:04:55 them but I want to ask, is that product law to us what Google is or more towards what Gmail is?

Pak H. Chau 1:05:04 Is definitely towards what Gmail is, but it's also about our ability to because at that point, and the data that we have the conversation experiences that we have at that moment, along with the infrastructure that we already have. I believe that at that moment when we make that decision, right, and we really focus in and design that product, because I don't think it's just about picking one of the 10 and 15 options that we've got right now. It could be about cutting all of them and picking one it could be that but it could also be creating this product that basically takes the elements from these products and takes the infrastructure that we have built into account and then having this one product that we built together that we designed together, along with the financial pitch and picture that we have, I think doing the 24 steps enable us to understand the market, not just in terms of understanding the market and how big it is, but also like what David said last week specifically about the actual ability for us to do this MVP with the budget that we have, that that was kind of the the key point in my head. When I wrote this like you need we need to evaluate the investor viability, whether or not they are going to be investors that invest in this stuff and what will not we know them plus whether or not we can actually build this and whether or not we can engage the people to build it. So when we have that product, let's say somewhere around August time, what I mean is at that moment, we wouldn't know and at that moment, we'll be able to make design a product that reflects all of that knowledge and utilizes all of the infrastructure that we've built. And we then use that right to really attack the milestones that we're going to have in January, at Davos. And that's the that's what I would say and I want to know if we disagree to that and why if we do

Matthew Tsang 1:07:03 I want to add one more thing right before we probably go back to David is that I agree that his second strategy in the sense were making the 20s but making that deciding what to do process, a self sustainable thing is actually a healthy thing to do and worth considering.

Pak H. Chau 1:07:26 Like I always think about it like if I were to just jump in here about the sustainability of doing these things. I mean, I just look at that moment. We have 20 spaces sign up before the 30 spaces sign up. And once we have that, I'm sorry, you go ahead, you go ahead you go ahead.

David Bovill 1:07:46 That's map thinking. When When Matthew says and I'm saying that the strategy that I described was making the 24 steps mapping process as sustainable. What that means is you carve it out as its own business with its own logic. It's an entirely separate legal entity, right, which is financed sustainably. It's not just the overall thing that we're doing is become sustainable in some vague way. What we're saying is, we spin that off as a sustainable joint venture. And and then we kind of tried to rely on that as, hey, this whole thing is moving so fast. We don't know whether we're going to the overall grand vision or of the amazing product or the dance, sort of the fractal. We don't know whether we're going to be able to pull that off within these 12 months or when the timing is right. And it's going to take us some time. So let's have this sustainable structure that we're just going to be able to feed off and live off for the next five years if we want you know, it's just going to be running this feeding us and that's a dream at least I'm sure we're going to have to really focus on it to get it to the stage right. The strategy there is to hive that out and be very ruthless about saying this, you know, out of all these map of ideas, that sustainable 24 Step sort of event strategy is this and it's not that it's not that it's not that we cut it off. We finance it like that we run it and it's it's not the same as just saying, hey, all these things we're doing they all make sense and they feed into each other and we're making it sustainable in some vague way. It means be ruthless about hiding their fur off of its own business.

Pak H. Chau 1:09:41 David, I think we need we need to discuss if we have a disagreement here because I'm what I'm insisting and what I'm saying we're really at this moment is and what Matthew was saying, I believe right when he was talking about doing the 24 steps, is that during this window here, let's say for example, we will may have multiple different threads, right? And I believe that is the timing that may be we're disagreeing on which is you may say well you know what the time to cut that off and and unify that though all of these spreads into one should happen like tomorrow. And then Matthew and I perhaps are saying no, it should happen at the end of July in August. Is that what we're disagreeing?

David Bovill 1:10:29 No, no, it's no disagreement in terms of timing because fuck knows what the timing is, in a sense, right? or anything. It's a disagreeing disagreement in terms of the languages that is being used. And the philosophy behind the business philosophy behind it and the legal structures behind it. So the language that I'm saying is one of which joint ventures spin off and focus on on on that strategy and spin it off round making the event stuff sustainable going forward. And forget the product stuff, right? It's separate, it's and the other language is all these things are related to each other. And if we get the timing right and this and this and this and this, then we can survive financially by it, one of them that I call a map strategy, and the other one is ruthless gardening pruning strategy. It's like we quickly need to cut back and make this thing just live by itself. Right and focus on the viability and sustainability of the autonomy of that thing. Right. And the map strategy is inherently dangerous and something that the 24th step says, Please, please, whatever you do, do not do this map strategy thing.

Matthew Tsang 1:11:55 I think I think without even perhaps, is thinking about it in a different way than packed. When, you know, I kind of infer that talking about the responsibility of being an entrepreneur is because Pak is not thinking them to be mutually exclusive, as a financial investor at this stage, because what David is kind of inferring is that oh, if we we go this way, if data is going this way, that won't go that way for now. Right? I think I think the point of view is slightly different.

David Bovill 1:12:39 But what I would say is I totally identify with but that's where I've been and it's it's all one I keep saying I know this map and strategy and I but at the same time I'm just stepping outside of that way of being and saying, from an external point of view, and from a business point of view, the general recommendation is that tends to fuck up businesses. And what you need to do is be much more radical about defining the beachhead market and proving things and going back and making the financial stuff sustainability and the main thing I would say, if I'm looking at it, the big danger here and the big one sentence I strongly disagree with, is that in in January, we kind of we should be in a position to present this to investors and take it forwards then I can't remember the phrasing. But basically, I don't I don't think we should be aiming for a strategy in which we've run out of money by January. And basically we're going to be having to somehow figure out how to survive for six months or four or five months before the investment comes through hypothetical investment comes through. What we want to be in a situation is in which we're signing deals at the beginning. sometime in January, February. Right. And that's, yeah.

Matthew Tsang 1:14:10 I think that that's a separate matter. Right. I think, I think the more urgent thing is that what had nice things about his split of effort and time and money is and how it affects our venture in the joint venture as well.

David Bovill 1:14:35 Sorry, I thought I was very directly addressing that in other words, because we need to be assigning deals January, right January, February. That means that we need to have defined a quite ruthless investable structure, October and then we need to be approaching people between October and January and discussing them and getting it and securing at least the next years. Investments so we don't run out of money in February or January.

Matthew Tsang 1:15:09 Yeah, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna go a bit obnoxious in a way that I'm going to talk about my point of view in a simple sense, right? Is that, hey, for the people, I've been emailing to invite them to the future RSA event thing. The feedback I got from the emails, I am kind of just going there responsibly, is to say hey, if we just build map of the future is adventure, it can be perhaps a self sustainable during the time that we, we, we have during the runway that we currently have and if we if we do that, we will just say hey 24 steps and just just go for this because we probably have done the 24 step for that. But of course, you know, we can superficially do that for the four steps or in in the reverse we do that patch. For this what we have decided in terms of map of the future events can be unique, right, maybe fine grain, tweak the market segment that we're going to do but yes, yeah. Sounds pretty promising already.

David Bovill 1:16:32 Futures decided quickly make that sustainable. So

Matthew Tsang 1:16:38 the feedback that I got and the way that we're building to us that we have this discussion this week about strategies because I was asking last week, if we're building this map of the future that's Fons different kinds of ventures that we can build in terms of and that thing being self sustainable. That sounds too good to be true. And if it does sound too good to be true, or if it just sounds so good, perhaps is the thing that we should do, you know, alphabet is curating all the companies in in, you know, the Google and whatnots, right, the open AI whatever you

Pak H. Chau 1:17:24 want to say something we can say something I gotta go in four minutes because I have to attend this Mitra mutual credit meeting because I that's that's what I'm gonna do. But I want to, I think it was a great discussion, but I want to close this off by saying this I I absolutely agree with David in terms of the nuance of the funding strategy, because, hey, you know, these situations, we've been there before, and we were just there actually, thinking about how you think about the investor issue, the problem, right and the question is, how if we continue being, you know, kind of like single headed in terms of that funding strategy, and if we can't fucking get away to actually be self sustainable from a grassroots sort of community perspective, we wouldn't have made that much of a difference and we really want to be able for for those sorts of money and income and revenue to come in by ourselves, right, that that I completely agree with. Now, in terms of what I don't agree with again, is I really believe in the timing on the timing that we need to really be able to build out something. And the time and when I say timing, I think between now and then it's not just about the events, infrastructure and doing the 24 steps in terms of data, but it's also about the development and not going too fast. But there's but the development of this incubation process, how

David Bovill 1:19:00 that's the third strategy. Okay. To me, you're just going to the third strategy. The third strategy is to do the MVP as an overlapping part of the search, we do both the event strategy and the MPP. And we need to overlap them, but I just don't think you can do them serially, because we don't have enough time and finance to do one after the other.

Pak H. Chau 1:19:25 The question is, I would say I would say right now that's why it's difficult with when you categorize it. options that you asked me to pick right now because I'm looking at it like it is the we haven't made a decision on the product so we can't be fast with it. Right? I disagree with Matt but a future that's it. We're still that fuck that. No, we're not doing that. Now, but a future is one of the things that we are considering within the 24 steps. So is the digital incubator so is everything else. Now we are going to do decentralized events. We're going to do that we're going to do map of the future meaning that we're going to do those sorts of events meaning that we're going to sign up the universities meaning that we are going to the hosting

Unknown Speaker 1:20:03 that funds that's a map that's a map

Pak H. Chau 1:20:07 so what I'm saying is that in the first three months, we're doing a man by man and then and then at that moment if we decide hate the man is gonna be a product let's go fast with the map. We do that the man needs to be able sustainable thing because I believe that the product strategy in itself, right and

David Bovill 1:20:25 then you need to add six months to the timeline. So if you're going with that, you need to add six months we don't have enough time from August to December to fit to create a business. Right so it's fine, but you need to then find some more money. To add another three to six months, let's say six months what

Pak H. Chau 1:20:44 I'm not this way, but what I'm not disagreeing though, is almost like this. You know, right now we're already thinking about creating this sort of joint venture vehicles and then battleships around that for the future, for example, or we can already do that for 10 stocks, for example, but he's about

David Bovill 1:21:01 too much detail. That's all that's a map strategy is it's this, this or this? It's linear, and we have to choose at this point of time and the basic point is keeping the map open to August does not leave us in less time to December to turn it into a sustainable business.

Pak H. Chau 1:21:21 Okay, gotta go. Talk Talk soon. Talk later. I'll send you the notes. To consider that point again. If Hey, David, I want you to give me a very solid answer. Okay. This is what I would say. If you believe that we should. Let's say for example, I want to do what you what you said we're going to do, right, I want to see I want to see what that looks like and what that actually means in terms of whether or not we're completing the 24 steps number one, and number two is whether or not that actually gives it put it in the benefit of clarity of mind in terms of actually pursuing the goal. So if you can actually give me states in return, then I think we can then have a conversation about that as well because I'm open.

Matthew Tsang 1:22:07 I think also the money side projection as well. Right? What's the runway or how much do you need before we get sustainable, right?

Pak H. Chau 1:22:16 Yes, the timeline first, because I want to know what the difference is and whether or not we should adopt David strategy strategy, you know, and then consider it on the same equal level. So please do that. And then I will, we'll continue this conversation with this exact outline, next time whenever we talk, so we just keep going. Alright. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:40 See, that was the link. So

Pak H. Chau 1:22:44 what was the meeting? What was the what's the actual credit

Unknown Speaker 1:22:47 meeting?

Pak H. Chau 1:22:48 I'll send it to them. Okay. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 01:09 don't want this he was partying.

Unknown Speaker 01:14 Okay, let me ask you a question, David.

Unknown Speaker 01:18 If you believe right what I want to get to more or more solid grounds because I don't honestly speaking understand the kind of the difference. I want to know what the

Unknown Speaker 01:35 what the what the difference is right now in terms of what you're seeing and what I'm seeing, like, can you tell me a little bit more about that?

Unknown Speaker 01:45 Okay, so it's I don't know how to say as I've been saying before, there's a difference between seeing the whole thing as one as a map right, in which this relates to this and this is like a graph of concepts each one, that one this and then you look at the whole thing and you think about how it can be sustainable and you ask all these questions between doing that or coming in as a business person leveraged by and splitting the project into several separate companies, right. And the, there are three choices. Well, there's four choices if you include the map strategy, and the map strategy. It's all one. These are all little elements and you can almost imagine structuring them as dowels and you just budget for the whole thing. And you weave it all together, looking at everything in detail and timing, and it's a sort of map business plan, in a sense.

Unknown Speaker 02:54 The first one that I described is throw everything away apart from the event and the discussion, make an event company out of it, right.

Unknown Speaker 03:04 The third version is, hey, we do this kind of little map of the future thing. It's we're not taking it seriously. Let's just do it as an event and not put too much money or investment into it, just let it be. And in those discussions, we're going to come up with an MVP and a product it's called fractal.ai or it's cool dance for us or whatever it is. And then that's going to be a battleship, and we're going to launch that in September or what have you. And the the third strategy, which is the one that no one seems to get is that there are two businesses here a meta business and an MVP business. And we're going to launch both these businesses. And we're going to choose for instance to do the meta business or the event business as a joint venture in which we have a minority stake, but we're going to make sure that that's got enough capacity in it. And we have going to have a stake in it. And we are going to create this particular MVP that we want to get financed by January during this journey. And it's just a question of these bigger boxes and how you say no, it's all one. It's a map and we're going to kind of flow with this new DAO based weirdness Right? Or we're just gonna do the event and keep it simple because that's hard enough to do and we're going to just make sure that we get, you know, whatever it is a minimum of $200,000 investment by January in the next year's event or whatever it is. Right now. And we're gonna aim for 5 million or whatever it is like that. Again, the third one is we're just doing this art project and we're going to do definitely map of the future but we're using that just to collect some data and we're really looking for a business opportunity in timescale and the first one is we're going to run the event seriously, and the MVP theory seriously. But the technique to do that is not a map. It is to create a a business partnership around let's say one or the other of those and then really, really focus 80% our time on one so we either really focus 80% Yeah, no, it's like that. I get it, I completely get it. And my, my sort of response is that I believe, so we should argue about a different point because the different point that I think we're disagreeing on is the timing of when we do that, because I think you will have to hard say, I think we need to kind of decide sooner because then we can accumulate the resources and do let's say, the 24 steps in a more focused way, right, let's just say like that. And that's the way that allows you to kind of get more relevant data, relevant resources, relevant stuff, have this sort of vision in mind so that we can basically be more focused earlier.

Unknown Speaker 06:11 In practical sense, so let's just get drill into it. So let's take September, right.

Unknown Speaker 06:20 So my view is that if we want to get let's say investment for January, February, right means that buy in a MVP, right?

Unknown Speaker 06:39 Not in the event itself, but in an MVP, right? We want to get investment in let's call it fractal.ai or some similar sort of thing, right?

Unknown Speaker 06:50 But then we we need to have the M we need to have the MVP we need to basically

Unknown Speaker 07:04 have both. We need to be talking to investors and presenting to investors.

Unknown Speaker 07:10 October, November, December, right. And that means we need to have identified already the MVP, we need to have already identified the beachhead market and we need to sort of present that in September, and start quickly going to people with the MVP, and basically saying how much you'd be prepared to pay for that collecting that data.

Unknown Speaker 07:42 And really have kind of finished that, that that whole price really October, November. And so that were then just really talking to investors with a whole package. We've we've built this MVP, we've taken it to clients, they're prepared to pay so much money for it and blah, blah, blah. That way, I think we've got a reasonably good chance by january february of getting enough finance to continue for another year with a plan. What we don't want to be in processes in saying, Hey, we're just being this event here called Map of the future. We don't know what our MVP is, but we're asking lots of questions for people. And after the event in September, it might be late September that we do this event you know, it'll depend on when it's good to do it with all these universities in the spaces and it might be September the first it might be September the 20th For all we know, right? And then we come to the beginning of October and say, Oh, that was interesting event, right. And we've got all this thing. What is going to be our MVP? I don't know let's discuss it for another month. And so we then figure out what that is in October and now we're trying to go to people and test it out and Christmas is rapidly coming. And we just run out of time and money. Yeah. Okay. So I've got to say a couple of things. Number one, alright, wise, right. And number two, I think also when it comes to, I think it's all timing, actually, it's all timing. Timing of when we're saying cutting things off and focusing. And what I would say is this, let me ask you a question, which is, let's say for example, we come with the map strategy, where we're just basically presenting this map, this Gora. Hey, we've got all these different businesses here. Yes, fleet financing. A Gora festival hey the whole different communities coming together they all have their own projects and businesses and and let's say we are this cooperative we are this Cora invest, invest. That fits very well with Davos for example, that that is like Oh, wow. So this is a new way of investing so we can present and focus more on kind of the collaborative effort to chaos and how people collaborate and that kind of stuff. I think that could be an MVP, right? And or, conversely, or differently. I think what would be really kind of if we go to, like, I look at it as this layer architecture where we're at right now we on this ecosystem layer, and then we can go into the company b2b layer, but do we really have time to build something truly, very b2c? Let's say for example, towards the end of this year for us to really get financing tractions based on the b2c stuff, I'm not confident about that. I'm not I'm not like I'm not because I feel like we have Udi where it is the b2c thought come into your head here. It's really about like it's about the earlier because we haven't mentioned that before. Do you think I'm talking about it? I might be I don't know. But what can I think? I think I mean, for instance, Dan start off but also I would say almost like this, the traction that we're able to get right now most of it is what b2b organizations to organizations that are under the heads they're in the right headspace they can help us get to investors. I look at things like that right. And I think they know the market but we have to take and with their products right now, do we want we didn't want to go into their arena. Let's say for example, right and create this sort of consumer product and compete with them on that level. Or are we more on this sort of metal layer, the map layer, the I would say collaboration between these companies across different fields in okay, do industrial industrial, usually you don't work together, but I'm not going to come down in your view and try to beat you in your field. That is a sound very feasible. Well, we are going to our MVP, most likely if you asked me to choose right now, it's going to be on more the B to B layer, because those are the people that we can get at this moment and we can already have a lot of traction. Then when we ask for the money. It's almost like, Hey, we've come to be stuff already if you just invest you investing in all these fellowships. Okay, let me sort of like

Unknown Speaker 12:17 explore that. Or push back one way of seeing what is realistic or what our opportunities are, would be a bit like this, which is we're talking about this b2b stuff like mutual credit slicing the pie like with a bunch of businesses, right? And it looks promising that okay, that we can get them to cooperate and we can develop a product for it.

Unknown Speaker 12:48 However, there are two problems with that b2b market. Segment. And if we compare it with the b2c ideas, we don't suffer those disadvantages then we have some particular opportunities in the b2c side. So describe what I'm saying. So this is quite honestly the businesses we're talking about. So far, at least a completely fucked up. We're businesses that really don't hardly exist, and they don't have any cash flow. Right, right. And they might be prepared to think use mutual credit and what have you, but they're kind of pretty flaky and they tend to sort of like either collapse or concentrate on their own staff and it's a little bit of a difficult market to sort of demonstrate real commercial traction on. And the second thing is, there's a huge X intense competitive explosion in AI tools in that kind of b2b space. There's literally I don't know, 1000 companies in the last week that have been created, right? So to try and distinguish ourselves in that space with just a chatbot that we've created in two days. Is kind of like is like, like not necessarily the strongest strategy. It's not necessarily a bad strategy. But it's it those are the problems with that strategy. Okay. Now, if we look at the beetus the advantages we have. One is I believe we've got an opportunity to do something completely unique at a global scale here.

Unknown Speaker 14:22 Which is based around ideas like the Creatorthon and decentralized events, and what we can do in a kind of entertainment event scale, that no one else can really do very easily, but the timing could be right for us. And there's very, very little competition, right. So in other words, if we if we did pull up something like dance dot earth or a global decentralized unconference with 100 universities and businesses taking place the ticketing round that the sponsorship around there, the number of people we could sign up to the platform round that could be very, very significant. And bring us real revenues with real businesses because we're doing something that they really want. They want us to introduce them to those sorts of early adopters in those communities. And it avoids the problem of all these flaky little, proto businesses. And it avoids the problem of, of entering into a massive competitive space where we're outgunned and instead focuses on a new market and that still uses a lot of those tools and what have you in those techniques and those businesses ideas, but in that b2c space, we can really do something significant and compete in a way that looks promising. I think I think what you're saying it's almost like a unique proposition. of US. It's just strong because the decentralized events nobody else could do we already we have stuff right we have everything set up. So you have here Oh, that's fine. You just plug into it. Oh, you have different venues. That's fine. Just plug into it. And it's salt is real is real. agreements signed by real spaces. And then we can talk about all sorts of different other ways to take advantage of that and create businesses around that. That becomes to something real that we have. Yeah, and that's what I call the kind of the event strategy as well. Really I'm a huge fan of it for a bunch of reasons, like emotional and other. I mean, one of the reasons is I'm a bit of a chicken when it comes to putting myself on stage and it really means putting ourselves on stage. It means going out there so we can get 100 universities or we can do dance. And it's that sort of courage to put yourself on stage and, and be happy doing all the social media and the telling of that story and all of that, which I should do but I'm always a little bit shy about and I tend to chicken shit out of it and the question about that strategy is, you know, especially with your karaoke talents, and the timing of what's going on, it just simply might be the time to put that sort of thing on stage and be very bold about it as a leader strategy. By the way, I just give you a funny example of that media strategy. So

Unknown Speaker 17:28 I went for a walk as you know, this morning, and I was thinking about Matthew and the music and the sound and the RSA.

Unknown Speaker 17:37 And I came up with this project that we could launch at the RSA which is a super, it's a super bad joke and aggressive media strategy, right, which is called beta. Basically, it's called.

Unknown Speaker 17:52 It's called eating for the future.

Unknown Speaker 17:55 Right? And what it basically is is we introduced this AI, asynchronous chatbot that people while they're having a shirt in a cafe or a restaurant, can be having thoughts about how shit the world is now, and what the how shit was future might be or what have you, and we get just collect a global community of people shitting and collecting the AI and we'd get a lot of funny press around that and if we really use that for map of the future presented that seriously to the I know so it sounds a little bit like sitting sitting for the future and you know, like what have you and I think we could almost like we could really go with some fun, aggressive media campaigns is what I'm sort of so yeah, I think because, because a couple of times when I was doing the audio, that's exactly what I was doing. I was already shooting.

Unknown Speaker 18:50 That's awesome. Hey, let me ask you a question about timing them because I think making that decision of because you talked about I think it's more than just dance. I think it's all of the different methods that it takes.

Unknown Speaker 19:09 Yeah, and it's not really like I'm not saying we make a quick decision about a product. This is a meta business strategy decision. It's basically saying, as a meta strategy, should we do the blockchain Uber it's all 1 billion DAO thing ecosystem one then that thing, or as a matter of strategy, should we say, hey, let's, let's focus on the 24 steps and that process on we're some sort of new form of event company, and we're just going to get that sustainable because that's the best strategic position to place ourselves in deals with our strengths, and what have you. And we're going to do this creative on the decentralized event company, and we're going to get that system or is it that we're going to actually come up with some sort of AI blockchain product in this space, which is our MVP and focus on that? Or is it we're going to do this layered two strategy with a business partnership and try and do both but in a structured way, what is our meta strategy here? Within each of those meta strategies, we still do the 24 steps, and we're still going to focus on a beachhead market and we're still going to focus on what the product is, and they're still going to focus on the investment. Okay. Okay. Now, I want you to maybe, let's talk about them again. Just just now that we have these ideas, let's list them out. Like what really is possibility in terms of the matter strategy. Okay. The first one is what incubator strategy. It's basically we try and

Unknown Speaker 20:51 take over Odex and so, and say, Actually, we're doing the digital incubator because you're great, but join in with us, right?

Unknown Speaker 21:02 We run with it with the proper sort of business strategy. And this is sort of, we're saying we're the umbrella ecosystem here, right like, and we're quite stealthy and ruthless about that.

Unknown Speaker 21:16 We might be talking about stuff, but basically, our business aim is to create the digital incubator thing that still want to create, create the kind of global guild onboarding ecosystem of a billion dollars that Victor wants to create and we will try and engage with all these people, but fundamentally, we think, Hey, if you guys have got a bit of the picture, but really, you don't have the business strategy between you and please join in with us, and there's this is a big enough pie for us to work with. But we just pile ahead with this map based ecosystem digital infrastructure, that's the megalomaniac one right and in a sense, right, that's the one that Alex has had his in his head.

Unknown Speaker 22:03 But it's quite close to the original Moti sort of vision as well. But even bigger if you like, you know, sort of thing and possibly if that's possible, right, okay. And the way we would do that

Unknown Speaker 22:18 is we'd have to

Unknown Speaker 22:23 we're looking to kind of absorb and buy out stem projects, right. So there are various DAO projects that are sort of failing, if you like, right, that need this sort of thing. And we basically say, our particular strategy for creating this is to in a way, do something like step outside DAO space, we're just gonna get very good at running the these events, onboarding people, getting investors in on board because of our legal and our technical about particularly our legal strategy, right for the DAO. Based incubator and the modeling behind that.

Unknown Speaker 23:07 And we'll be quite open to but ready to move quickly on the technical implementation of let's say, the DAO based thing, you know, are we going to just these legs on a near are we going to use Alex's multi chain thing are we actually just gonna do it as a web to app in JavaScript with with Lexon and legal agreements for now? We, we we retain an openness on that. But we need to build a team in which we can quickly implement the required env MVP random digital ink incubator, largely concentrating on the visual kind of front end, the business partners, the events and the financial investment infrastructure, getting the business model right, talking to people from the city of London. And all of this sort of thing. Possibly teaming up very quickly with one particular partner, one, you know, DAO thinks it might be Alex and selves, depending on how, how, together that is right? It might be Lex on a Monday we go and negotiate with these partners, basically. And we also have this sort of strategy, which is I would call it the the gathering of tribes strategy, which is a new strategy. So this is a new strategy.

Unknown Speaker 24:34 Yes, it's one that I wasn't thinking of doing before in a way Victor persuaded me into doing it, which is we do something would be a bit sort of Machiavellian internally between us and people who are on the inside in Moti. If you like that, it would be basically Hey, we're just doing this gathering of tribes thing. So Moti, we're the creative industry tribe, and we love doing events and doing media and using AI and media, and we're really harmless, right, you know, and we'll help run all your events sort of thing. So you're great. You're doing the multi chain architecture stuff will help you do that and do that. Odex you're really really great. You're doing this head heart and things and you really want to do the spiritual aspect of the community and to do with software development says amazing, near You're really great. You're doing this particular blockchain thing or what have you.

Unknown Speaker 25:31 Aragon you're really great like this right and and we we basically organize these events around the gambling the tides, but we've we talked to the investors we get the legal stuff really right. We run this particular then we get them signed up and in the end, we're running the event with all the investment and we choose the best infrastructure to do it Software wise and and, and they all join our one tribe to unify them all types thing, right? It's a it's a bit Stalinist as well, we make sure that we're the secretary. And we have the contact address, and all those sorts of things in the production. And we use that and we just say that we're being of service originally, but our end goal is to be the digital incubator that they all want to be and they look back at the end of the five year journey, and they say hey, that was great. And they didn't exactly lie to us, but that was a really smart strategy. I wish I'd done that, you know, because then we'd be running out sort of thing you know, like any case that's that's the sort of gathering a tribe strategy you basically I kind of listened to this piece podcast this morning as well political one. And it is really, it's about that kind of constructive ambiguity of how you speak to people. You don't argue with Victor about what he's doing in his anarchist shift. You just know what he likes to do. And he really wants to say that Odex is this heart thing and specialize on it. So so great, Victor, let's run with it. Right? And you know, Alex's thing is let's say he really wants to do this particular multi chain thing and how you just deploy this contract and it's everywhere, and he wants to be the architect great to do that. And you just stop arguing with everyone and internally we have like arm are basically do digital incubator strategy, which they're all kind of wanting to do.

Unknown Speaker 27:25 And you just keep that quite confidential.

Unknown Speaker 27:30 Only release that when you're strong enough because you're running these events and and you're, you've got an A big enough event and you know, how bringing the investors down. Now you build your own platform sort of thing, which you hadn't told people you were doing before, right? But you know, you haven't exactly lied to anyone. You You haven't necessarily been that open to people about what your your actual inner business plan really is sort of thing. Is that, okay, okay. Well, that's number one. Number two was, do you want to have feedback on them one at a time? What do you think about that strategy? Okay, so digital incubator strategy is just kind of, because now they're basically these organizations. They're very disorganized. They don't have the stuff. They don't have questions to the investors they're talking about. They don't have a mechanism in which they can really collaborate. Basically, we just say, hey, let's build let's just get the money base themes for these people that we know needs. It, and then connect with the investors and get them to invest all at one goal, right. So that's the more aggressive product strategy in terms of this p2p tribe, space. And then the gathering of tribes is a little bit so sorry, you disagree with my assessment of this first one.

Unknown Speaker 28:49 It's a little bit not disagree with it. It's just a little bit also you look at the weaknesses of what they're doing. And you take a pretty radically different position. So the two weaknesses of okay you identified one weakness is they're pretty disorganized and they don't have a particularly strong business plan that say, or grounded business plan. That's true, but I'd say there are two other elements of the weakness that are very, very specific, in a sense one is they they don't have a web to matrix strategy, right. So they've so much radically cut themselves off from that it's very hard for them to talk to people who have a lot of money in internal sort of space. And make a deal with them. Right.

Unknown Speaker 29:44 So we would go full on web to matrix strategy, right? Second, they don't have they don't have a robust legal knowledge or strategy. So they don't have lawyers on board. They don't have legal advice. They're not doing the legal company in the foundation stuff in a in a particularly

Unknown Speaker 30:12 powerful or strong way.

Unknown Speaker 30:15 So from that point of view, I would say, it's not just that we need to be more organized for that, because that applies to the other strategies as well, particularly applies to the megalomaniac digital incubator strategy, because we have to go out aggressively to web to type investors and use cases and partners. And we have to go aggressively with a very innovative legal strategy with the proper sort of legal business advisors on board and structures on board that and that distinguishes ourselves from them because there are for instance, and quite well resourced blockchain ecosystems that are trying to do this sort of thing and have been trying to do it. But okay, suffer from those two elements. I want to ask you in terms of the gathering of tribe community, strategy and you almost looking at it, like, you know, the political story of this sort of ambiguity that we're giving off not revealing what we want the secret plan is, and so I want to understand, okay, the differentiation between the first and the second strategy from the communication perspective, let's say for example, we're talking to Sal, we're talking to Odex. The communication difference, what is the key communication difference there?

Unknown Speaker 31:41 Okay, so what I've, what I was trying to do previously right was say, let's get a core production team of some aligned people together, and who have experienced in the technical, the head heart hands thing. So let's get Victor. And let's get Alex and let's get Pak to join forces as a production team, right?

Unknown Speaker 32:09 Each with their own companies, but as a joint Socrative joint venture, right, taking a forwards and let's then launch together one onboarding process. One kind of series of events to sign people up to this community and brand it well. Right. So Leslie, tell Alex, you just concentrate on the multi chain architecture and let us run your events that we've signed off now we're running your events.

Unknown Speaker 32:39 Moti are really good at the branding. We will do the branding, we will do the events. So that makes sense. Tell Victor, you're really good at the community stuff and talking to all these anarchists and hippies and running these events and this sort of thing and the digital nomads and you can't do the technology stuff and you don't want to build stuff. And you're not really that bothered about the branding and what have you. But you're really good at facilitating running these these events. So just join up, we'll brand these events. We'll build the technological infrastructure, and we want you to post on board and interview people and be there almost human resources, that sort of people, but part of the team there, and we're all going to stand on stage together and we look very diverse. And we we come from very different places, but we're going to be on message together as a team. And we're just going to start with one thing and when it gets big enough we might split up into different circles and teams. And Victor you go off and do your Odex stuff. And and Alex you go off and do your domain driven design sessions with with with software architects and Moti you go off and do your stuff with artists, innovators in the creative industry, and that's great, but we're sharing this common thing and we have a slicing the pie joint venture that we've agreed on, right? That was the original strategy, slicing the pie. Let's get everyone together. But every time I talk to one person, the other person drops up the scale and and it's just fucking I just it's it's exhausting. And it's just people, people in their egos and their frailty sort of thing. Right. So the second strategy, which is much more Victor's strategy is, hey, we're all just egos and monkeys and chimps in any case, and we've all got our own tribes we want to bribe so let's just do a lightweight agora that we call gathering of tribes. So Alex, you bring your soul tribe along great, right? I'll bring my Odex tribe you along with the guilds and stuff. Great Moti. You just bring your weird artists and things to learn. Great, right? And we're as long as we've got this kind of common minimum, we're going to do this event called.

Unknown Speaker 34:58 Now that strategy, basically, as a narrative combines probably three stories.

Unknown Speaker 35:05 It combines map of the future, a billion dowels and gathering of tribes, which is basically my garden strategy, right? And basically says, This is how we're working together. We're an ecosystem of these independent sovereign things. We've got these countries we call tribes or gardens, right? And we're gathering in a decentralized way. And we're launching this together and we love each other is that kind of message right? And we do the the map of the future maybe and we do do danced on earth and we do it as a gathering of tribes. Yes, I like it. I like it, but then at the same time, right.

Unknown Speaker 35:50 Are they do we are we making a decision ruthlessly between the incubator strategy and getting that tries because it's still a digital incubator when you have these for example? Yes, we have a gathering of tribes as an event, which is what we have in the beginning, let's say for example, and then you get to say, well, there's a way for you to collaborate this tech that we have, we're using Lexon. We're using different things. We are providing that technology, we are providing that platform right.

Unknown Speaker 36:16 What is I want to see where is the difference there in terms of those two strategies in regards to the providing of the platform playing okay.

Unknown Speaker 36:30 So at the moment, at least, but this is relatively sort of new thinking of me because I don't normally like I'm usually a bit more. I'm usually basically very, very honest. So my PR strategy is like you know, talk to Alex get Alex to be totally aligned like talk to pack get backpack to be totally aligned. Talk to oder Victor get them aligned. Then once that talking has been done, bring them all together in meeting get them all totally aligned. And let's launch this together, where we all understand and agree right? But that takes three years might even be humanly possible sort of thing right? Something like this right.

Unknown Speaker 37:12 And Victor's sort of influence me a bit on this like in a way as well.

Unknown Speaker 37:18 So what I basically am saying now is in a way, be bit more dishonest in a white lie sort of sense, right?

Unknown Speaker 37:31 Bill build this digital link beta thing is all one thing, but use the language which is more politically acceptable to people's egos of the gathering of tribes. That probably means institutionally, we need to have a secret society. In other words, like a group, an inner group, which is aligned to the Machiavellian structure of like introducing this and what the business plan is, and blah, blah, blah, all these things right.

Unknown Speaker 38:05 And that is even just the Moti internal company's strategy, which it can be, but it actually might be the Secret Service of the gathering of tribes guild, right, which we create, you know, which might just start off with me and you and if, if at some stage Alex become sane and moral, he could join and and we ask other people to join it, and it is a bit like, you know, for instance, it would appear to me that

Unknown Speaker 38:44 with the caveat that I've always that I'm not yet I'm trying to be overly wary about

Unknown Speaker 38:56 neurodiversity mental health stuff, because it seems to be really slowing things down. Right. But I would say that out of the people that we know so far, the people that are most aligned to this way of thinking would be

Unknown Speaker 39:13 Andre, and Matthew wise, for instance, something like that. Right. But I don't think either of them are necessarily quite ready to do it. Right. I think Andre would feel too morally torn. To do that without bringing Victor fully in. I don't think Victor necessarily is ready to do this yet. I don't know. So that, that that sort of I don't know what that strategy is. Most obvious. One is just an internal Moti thing that we do, but I kind of have this idea that there's this kind of slightly funny secrecy, part of this gathering of tribe thing performance thing, which is the secret guilds and that we could do it in a quite playful way that might be quite good. I think you are correct in your assessment of how sort of we have to behave in order to get this done, because I think when we had that conversation with Victor, I had additional conversation with him yesterday.

Unknown Speaker 40:22 It seems to me that you can basically merge them in a very you have to basically that needs to be a very smart strategy in terms of them remit retaining their own image and their own authenticity, authenticity, I date identity. When but then right now what they're not good at, they're good at that. So they're good at saying that I'm saying and they're good at saying that I'm Odex and they can tell you it is about Odex is about and they're proud of that.

Unknown Speaker 40:50 So what I think is the gathering of tribes, no one's going to compete with you in doing that. That takes the most effort that takes the most kind of connection that takes and for us, I think that what a future is about creating an onboarding that is like Like, like, so, like Odex when we put it all together. Okay, we wouldn't be in this gathering of tribe event. If it weren't for Moti. Right. So Moti is doing this scattering abstract event. We're just a tribe, but the gathering of tribes, the tribes are here. And this is really where they gather. And then okay, now they're here they gather so we also have the responsibility to tell them, Okay, this is not just a talk shop, this is actually doing work. Right. You are not responsible thinking like that. But we are thinking like that and we build something now if you want to join that would you can Slice the Pie because that's that's part of the mechanism that I'm presenting to you right now. That's how you do it. And they might say, I'm not interested. Or some of them I say, I'm very interested, right. So in that sense, then you already have these organizations, and you tell them exactly. You're not saying that. This is why you have to exist because you want to collaborate with these businesses. No, you Oh saying hey, this is just another place where you can actually make something real of your community. So it's like a service to communities strategy. It comes together on a track. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 42:11 Yeah. What's the what's the other strategy in terms of because you always you also talked about Okay, so, in terms of the fast product strategy, the event production strategy, the gathering of tribes, are they distinct, are they are they separate?

Unknown Speaker 42:27 That is totally separate.

Unknown Speaker 42:29 So, the first events strategy is forget all this complexity of all these tribes and the deals and the products or anything like that. We just have an opportunity here. Sure, by talking to these communities or what have you to organize

Unknown Speaker 42:54 this decentralized event and create a software product and a set of services in which we can get revenue and get investment in doing these decentralized events. We're gonna do map of the future in September. We've got all these other decentralized apps that are in our portfolio. We have some software services and a unique product. We will work with cell Odex, whoever decentralized events and a business plan around it. And given that we're going to be doing this first one in this really fast new space, it's going to put it Mark situation because we're building the 24 steps into strategy, the collection of the market data that all these companies need into the event strategy. We're going to get sponsorship, we're going to sell this market data back to people. We're going to get investment in it. And we're also going to be able to do these unique global large scale events. Because we see that that is going to be a whole blossoming field that takes off in the coming years. And we want to put position ourselves on that. And being that position will as a media company doing that sort of thing will also put us in a very, very good position to work with partners, and innovate and create our own joint ventures and products that we could pivot to or we could just continually benefit from curating and picking amazing innovations in this space to invest in right now. Something like that, but we'll focus on is just being good at this new form of event right? To get everything else, right. The the MVP the products strategy is much more like we're going to create a digital product.

Unknown Speaker 44:47 For some beachhead market in this space, we're going to be using the map of the future and these other things to just be a crafty way of, of getting between now and let's say September, and in building, interviewing people, but we're aiming to really ruthlessly pivot to a very specific technical platform or product that we're going to choose for a beachhead market with clear revenue streams, right? It's not aims. I mean, it could be a particular product for events it might be.

Unknown Speaker 45:27 We might identify the fact that this async audio chat GPT thing is a product we might identify that

Unknown Speaker 45:42 there is a vey a product of running these events.

Unknown Speaker 45:50 Having sort of things that out.

Unknown Speaker 45:56 stuff around these events and there's a Helios like specific project product there. We might find that it's for filmmakers, and specifically allows them to particularly filmmakers, let's say in Africa and South America, and Netflix, we can run these particular kind of digital filmmaking school that picks up on amazing film scripts, protects the IP around them, and allows distributors to come in and invest in in great film Strix at the Scripps an early age. We don't know what the product is, but we're going to focus on the product you think I'm gonna be?

Unknown Speaker 46:41 I'm gonna ask you a question because that is what market research is for. And I think we basically can do market research around a few three different decisions I from what I heard, that we really have, because we are doing the gathering of tribes. So that's not a decision the decision is the end product is either going to be right, a digital incubator, whether or not we can get funding for that. Number two, is either going to be a digital error or is going to be an event company, right? And then the third one is no, it's going to be a startup product, right? That we are building a software startup product. So we have three different things that potentially we could force one to one that I've always recommended is that we we do both the event company and we

Unknown Speaker 47:39 use the event we did event company.

Unknown Speaker 47:43 It's been we do

Unknown Speaker 47:48 is it basically we do all three, as sustainability to create a longer

Unknown Speaker 47:58 a longer cashflow stream, right. So and we do that as a joint venture, which basically means we maybe really aggressively look for event company partners. And we take a third of that or whatever it is we're basically just looking for that to get a sustainable income, you know, going for the next five years, right?

Unknown Speaker 48:26 Because we've co founded this event company, right? But then we can given that we we now because we've got IP and now we've structured that and we've done a partnership with that we've got some investment in the event company.

Unknown Speaker 48:39 Our deal is we can kind of step back and only put 20% of our effort into those events and events company because our partners are doing that. And we're now going to concentrate on either doing the digital incubator or a product that is given these events we do and we're just going to try and get some fund investment fund ran that we're going to you know, be working with the event company to

Unknown Speaker 49:07 hold these events and bring the investors to it and the event company gets a fit for doing these events. They're just an event company. Okay. Okay. So we've been this event company going along for the next five years. We do that as a joint venture. And now we look it might be December or January. Now that that's going along. We look to start putting 80% of the vote share into the MVP or the digital incubator thing because that's what we really want to do, but we've got a longer runway now. Okay, okay. I like that a lot.

Unknown Speaker 49:49 All right. I think I think the key for me is about being able to well on decision as to which one also I also want to learn more. I think what I want to learn in terms of my focus of the research of the 24 steps is like, which one of them are most likely to have the best financial give us the best financial stability, long term job, longevity in terms of like, if we go with this strategy, let's say and we I think we could know something like that around we can do some preliminary at the end of this month if we focus our energy into pursuing them, but I think we will have when do you think serves you when do you fish in in terms of now late to science hybrid, right? But then at some point, do we? We got a certain percent we like let's say for example, let's drop that one. Right, even though there is less focus on this one instead, because now we need to focus. When do we make that sort of decision? Again?

Unknown Speaker 50:51 Well, I would defer in my head at least I have divided this into the meta structure between let's say these four strategies, right? And then the 24 steps and focusing in timing of decisions. So for me, all of them require us doing the 24 steps and the timing of the decisions, right. And so they might slightly differ in their timings of when you have the decision and what have you. Right, but that that element, possibly with the exception of the last one, where we basically have to be a bit schizophrenic, we're doing overlapping. We're almost starting two companies at the same time or with a bit of overlap between them, right.

Unknown Speaker 51:38 But, so, and my inclination is the decision over the the matter strategy isn't a 24 Steps thing. It's more of a gut market decision thing and an inclination of who you are and about how much risk you want to take. So I would say for instance, the event strategy looks pretty safe.

Unknown Speaker 52:04 Right? I would expect that we should be able to get like 200,000 sort of minimal sort of investment in this space using AI doing these events, engaging these partners with the sort of technological we should if we go out to enough investors be able to get that and it is also thing which does keep open all the really big opportunities right you know, and I might want to pivot back to that there's might be a way of doing that same strategy with a super bold one combined, right you know, in other lead, be bold, right? Just noticed, we can probably can combine that with a quiet, safe event strategy in terms of the business model of the event. Yeah. And then the for instance, the incubator digital incubator strategy number one.

Unknown Speaker 52:54 That's just basically more ambitious high risk strategy saying things like because the world is changing so far, AI because of what's happening in blockchain and all the people we know. We should really just be authentic to what we really believe in and go for it, you know, sort of thing and just that you're putting our time and go for it sort of thing. It's what a risk maniac sense that the timing is right strategy and it's not a market testing strategy. Because all of these we have to sort of decide, in enough time that in September, we can present it really well to everyone, right?

Unknown Speaker 53:34 The prestaties for instance, would be more of a decision of like, all these things are really good. But we really need to build a specific concentrate on a specific sort of revenues. And we we should be making some software or defining a niche thing and it's a more 24 pure 24. It's like we're making a mobile app, right. It's sort of a pure 24 strategy when it come up product with revenue going to go out from there, and the safest way to do that is be quite conventional about that business model and approach to the 24 steps, right. Matthew? What do you say?

Unknown Speaker 54:16 Yeah, sorry. I just want to hear what Matthew has to say. In terms of these four strategy what what would you say Matthew?

Unknown Speaker 54:24 Like I said, you know, map of future thing weather event are not seen as a very reasonable thing already as a business venture. Like I said, you know, probably an hour ago, how, however, I still, you know, it's a philosophical issue. I mean, in particular, as the, as the major financial contributor to this tension now, is that you have to be responsible to yourself whether you hold 24th step as your Bible that taking the part of the back of the future requires you to do that.

Unknown Speaker 55:03 Requires still requires you to do the planning.

Unknown Speaker 55:06 Right so that's that's that I mean, I do feel that 24 steps can be on its own financially sustainable

Unknown Speaker 55:24 Okay, so I I think being bold, let's say for example, I mean, the hybrid strategy is interesting, because you can say, I'll pick two out of the three and focus on that, let's say for example, and I think right now, I think the bolt the boldest thing that is like, in my heart, the boldest thing right and the most high risk thing and the most is to say, Hey, listen, this digital incubator idea.

Unknown Speaker 55:53 That's the product that we are making. We go to investors for this product, everyone in that ecosystem helps us because they want to get investment as well. And we align all of the timeline right with Odex timeline that we put in, okay, this is a Davos story. This is we work with the World Economic Forum people, maybe now something now and build a story unto that particular moment in particular moment in time and we make a blast in January. That's sounds good. All right. It's to have but then the product that 20,000 or the 25,000, whatever 20,000 will be spent exclusively on that. And to really spend it wisely, efficiently but at the same time, we know okay, this is the product we start scoping now. We work with communities, but with this very deep sense of focus, how do we trade? How do we get these people working together?

Unknown Speaker 56:51 And I like that now in terms of the event and getting people together with map for the future. Using Okay, go ahead.

Unknown Speaker 57:01 If you took if you want to go for that bold strategy, I would differ slightly on the financials for that, right. In other words, because that strategy is so big and so bold, right?

Unknown Speaker 57:15 I think we we haven't fleshed out exactly what it is but reading in between the we go for this digital incubator, which is was the original idea of sale. It's other people's ideas as well, but we really feel we can pull this off. We're going to present it at Davos we know exactly the strategy that we know what needs to be done there and what have you.

Unknown Speaker 57:41 With that particular strategy, I believe that we should view the you know, the the investment slicing by the cash investment that you make is just one we should be seeking really early on and talking like

Unknown Speaker 58:02 August one or two other investors also to put in 200,000 in cash and get slicing pie. Right so I think we can because it's not too much money for someone to put in for something like that. And I think we would, we should think of basically for that, let's say DevOps launch and that timing, right saying right we need this budget for that this budget, and that's easily going to add up a little bit. And so we're looking to basically not try and spend 20,000 On the way to Davos, but trying to spend 300,000 On the way to Davos or something like this, right? You know, and we therefore want a type investment strategy ran that. Okay. And yeah, sure, I'll be plan is we're going to go through it like this with a small amount, but we should be explicitly open to an align business partner who comes along and says, I'm gonna also put in 200,000 into this joint venture and I will get my slice of the pie that way. I think I think the question really about making those decisions for me, is, I think when you bootstrap, it's hard to get those things right. Right. I definitely think the scale that you need right to pull something off because hey, if the combined value of the investment is less than how people would basically invest in a startup, then it doesn't really make sense, right? The whole thing just falls apart because it's weak, right? It's like a one of those things.

Unknown Speaker 59:38 So I think with that sort of aggressive decision, I love how aggressive it is and how focused it is. Then I guess the question then becomes, if we were to evaluate that strategy, we do have to do it not with the budget we have, but with the budget that we think is going to make a blast in Davos and to assess the possibility and the feasibility of whether or not we can do that over the next two or three months. And if we couldn't do that in the next two or three months that we make that decision, but quickly, then we should just think about, let's say for example, putting the other strategy more in focus, having still haven't opened that strategy still presenting that maybe at some point later on, then when we go to Davos, then is a different picture. Last just might be because, you know, if I'm talking about something, it's very, very specific. I have in my mind, what would need to be done. So I might be sounding quite philosophical and abstract. But to me, no, it's much more you choose, almost with your gut now, and then sure. We have I can't know it never never seems to at least, particularly Matthew, when you describe the logic of this thing doesn't go everyone who one of these meta strategies. So brings for the bold one that packs are talking about presenting. at Davos, we have to do the 24 steps right and, but that also means radically committing now to that strategy, and during the 24 steps within it. So that strategy would mean right now, because it's very, very clear that if we want to do DevOps properly, we need a significant budget just to be in DevOps, especially what we want to do. And it's very, very clear that that pitch, we should have a reasonable MVP, so that it's very, very clear that we need to raise at least another $100,000 Like this. So I'm thinking immediately, right, there's some guy we know he's probably investing a million of his own money in this year. His crazy is fuckin lovely. And I know we can have a meeting with him. He's hiring a hotel to present dance, Earth basically.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:02 Cannes Film Festival in May now right putting this money in. So let's have a meeting with him and see if he will invest money in this strategy because he he probably doesn't quite get what's possible here and from and I know him and his friends are friends and let's talk to him. Then there's David Atkinson.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:24 Hollow chain. Let's have a business meeting with him in a couple of weeks time. See if we can just present him say look, would you invest 200,000 In this, okay, let's get a list of five people between over certainly it's a radical focus in the next two in next month. I'm going down that level while doing the 24 steps. So going and getting the market segment analysis and developing it because all these investors will want the 24 stacks everyone who's going to invest wants and 24 steps, it's the business plan and the project, the common sense way that you get a business plan being made, right. So but what it means is a pivot away from Hey, we're gonna do this 24 steps within our own financial means and we're going to be approaching investors when we're ready, and there's various reasons for doing that, after September or something like that, or even in January, right? To say no, actually, we would go and talk to them next week. Right? Packs putting his money in, we want another one or two people to do the same. We're going to use explicitly this financial model slicing the pie round this thing. We're going to go for this right but and we're still going to 24 steps, every one we do the 24 steps whether we're doing map of the future strategy, whether we're doing the event strategy, whether we're doing a product strategy, each one of them has got to use the 24 steps, but it's targeting those 24 steps at different market segments, sort of people like Like for instance, if we're going to do the 24 steps as a slicing the pie joint venture around the digital incubator thing, we basically saying hey, we need to bring a couple of other slicing the pie investors into our joint venture here. And we know some people who may be interested. Let's go and talk to them with a quick business proposal around that.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:33 23% Each right, I don't think that do us any good in terms of like August we haven't decided, you know, but then hey, if we decide to go with the first one, we give it a real shot over the next couple of weeks right? Then we come back to the drawing board, and then we look at it. Which one are we going for right now? Because I think right now, I would like to go through the first one, let's say for example, but then do you mind saying again, to me, it's these sort of things.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:03 There are some things you decide you need to decide quickly. And you move with them. And there's some things you decide on data and your work with. This first decision is something like for instance, I know that we will miss the investment opportunity from the guy who's going to Cannes Film Festival unless I know you will the debt Atkinson the ability to get 200,000 for dabbas. If we don't talk to people within the next six weeks, we're too late. Right?

Unknown Speaker 1:05:33 So I agree with myself on that. So right but I want to tell you what I don't agree with now because I'm saying right now we have digital incubator strategy, we have to event strategy, we have to start a product strategy, and then we have to hybrid one, the hybrid one really is not making a decision. So we take this take that one out, oh, it's making a very strong decision. They're all making very, very, very high risk question. Tell me about the high even the hybrid a hybrid one says we're starting a joint venture, we now need to look for a slice of pie investors in the event strategy, and we're going to spin that off as its own business and we're looking for someone to lead that and we're going to try and pivot around September to the either the digital link or a particular digital product. And that's our strategy. So we have to move super quickly to get the event thing off the ground faster would have if we were just going to focus on the event thing and a map of the future.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:30 So because it's the difference is where we put our effort that the hybrid strategy says we are fully expecting to put 80% of our effort right into 24 Steps round either the digital info or product starting around September.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:49 Our job right now is to get a bit more of a runway off the ground. And get some investment in this event thing and get that off the ground. And if we fail to get that off the ground sufficiently so that these events are kind of running and that businesses are growing by September, then we might have to double down on the events in and get your event Our aim is to pay from event company to product like and our job is to get business partners around and give the event stuff away.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:25 You know, by attracting some business people to to put some money into the event side of things, and certainly maybe make a partnership right now. What is the decision that I have to make right now in terms of like, like because I think I have all the information now. Right? But I want you to kind of ask me, let's say for example, university, I would say when would right now be? I definitely would say right now is by June the first because it what we present to people on June the first if it's not September. It's June the first it might be by this Thursday, but it's somewhere between this Thursday and June the first that we should have the meta strategy clear, right?

Unknown Speaker 1:08:10 And all of them are acquired during the 24 steps and there's a lot of overlap between them. But we're basically saying like it's just it's just we're gonna put a percent of our energy into just doing this event thing and getting the event thing and the map of the future down, which is kind of what Matthew seems to be saying, right if I was to paraphrase his words

Unknown Speaker 1:08:34 or we're going to decide to put 80% energy into the digital incubator and bold view that kind of seems to be what Pak is saying, right? And, or we're going to be putting

Unknown Speaker 1:08:50 at poem tray, which means let's get some extra investment, early stage investment and see if we can get some moderate investment to map patch packs, maybe the event strategy, and then look to pivot and focus on the more ambitious one starting December.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:14 Given that the event strategies their success, which is let's say the David strategy or what have you, and I think we should just workshop those, and I don't know, I'd be I think we should probably try and achieve consent on that between the three of us, right? So it's not like you pack to decide which one you do, and it's not a vote. It's more like we really need to be aligned on whatever it is as a team. So let's all think about it quite hard. Have have a discussion and a timeline for that discussion. And then try and persuade each other on one agreed strategy for this.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:58 Hmm, sounds good. Sounds like a good end of today's discussion. I think for now.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:05 I think we can save time.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:10 Okay, can we do that?

Unknown Speaker 1:10:12 Yep.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:13 I'll just have a quick look at something here because there were some things that I put on the agenda, if you like that discussion, but there were some things that I sort of put on here that weren't we haven't discussed. I just want to refresh my mind what they are.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:31 We haven't discussed may 4 yet. We haven't 20230501 today. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:42 I probably have to discuss with you as well alone. I have to talk to Victor maybe you want to come because he wants to Gora thing.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:50 Yeah, which is the scale of meta decision early helps everything. It's not something to delay until 20 30501 here but I don't have any

Unknown Speaker 1:11:09 I don't have anything on that. I just have checking Matthew David. We just have screen sharing for me. Okay, maybe you let me just see.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:23 Because So, yeah, yeah. I want to talk about the more detailed specific things. Yeah, the the pipeline community leader in studio strategy.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:37 Yeah, we haven't we haven't talked about this one. We haven't talked about this one. We haven't talked about this one. And we haven't talked about this when we talk about the gathering of tribes one.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:46 But okay, so these strategies are not in this on the same sort of level right or different about different aspects. It's not just about things. It's almost like it's it's continuing the work that's been done and making sure that the ongoing work on the that we have to do almost regardless, that we sort of agreed on is clear.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:17 Quickly exploring them. So the pipeline strategy is because we've gone off track I've I've slightly forgotten there was some things I wanted to say specifically on it.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:34 Let's come back to that. Let's talk about the community leader strategy, right.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:39 The community leader strategy is basically that with the target of September doing

Unknown Speaker 1:12:52 an event, a decentralized event, based round, let's say map, not necessarily, let's say just just cut down the options, a map of the future event in September.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:05 It's been just we appear to have an agreed strategy that we're going for 100 community leaders by December, and we're going for somewhere like 15 to 20 in September, and it's just getting very precise about what that means in terms of company leader.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:29 I call them spaces and how we would work with our existing partners in an agreed way that we present on May the fourth and during the first round that and make sure that we we present progress on that to them on May the fourth and June the first so that they have confidence in us and then start working really hard along that community leader strategy.

Unknown Speaker 1:13:58 So my understanding is I'm just going to say as clearly as I can again is that what the agreement is with Victor and Odex, which aligns with everyone else, I don't it's not the whole thing is that we get want to grow at the Speed of Trust to onboard over this year 100 individuals who each have their own communities who are autonomous, highly aligned and motivated on board to the strategy of Matt themselves, and now regularly engage with us in these kinds of monthly events that we do and grows their communities and work towards and in particularly take part.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:53 Let's say in the September event, we want 15 of these community leaders I've said 20 before it might be too much but somewhere around that. And if we do one at DevOps, or we do one, at the end of this period, let's say it's spring, we really go for a minimum of 100 We might even extend that and go for 10,000 or something but we really want to go for this. And we need to have a quite strong picture and several, and it's to do with the market segmentation and the beachhead analysis of the 21st steps from personas of who these these 100 leaders are.

Unknown Speaker 1:15:36 I see at least a third of them being people who can organize a community and an event at a university in the computational or creative computation industry. So people in arts digital video tools, digital audio tools, AI tools, creative computation tools

Unknown Speaker 1:16:06 and also people who are involved in the DAO, the blockchain, the legal IP aspects of sort of business, and that they should be 30 of the most important universities organizing an event in September. Now this could be just a little pin of an event. It could be two students in a bedroom, in University in Sweden, it could be you know, but obviously we aim for more than that. But what we want is the passionate connection and involvement of a community leader who's then going to persistently go out and sign more people up from that institution, and who has the ability to each month organize a physical event, whether it be in their dorm, or a community space, or book a university space.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:03 Obviously, the most important thing is the quality of that person and the community, the target community that they are able over a following series of events to grow that community and that those communities are financially sustainable. You know, they they can be sponsored enough that the cost of running the events isn't something that we're we can't do in other words, that if it's at Oxford University is because this professor can book this space for free. They can run it then we can go to some law firms and get it sponsored and it can be done. So 100 of these community leaders running sustainable events, investing and becoming co owners if required slicing the pie style of this event strategy. So that includes, for instance, the early adopters here are 30 spaces who might be universities including either guru or the we worksites spaces or the Eco village type spaces. They will provide the venue themselves they will provide a facilitator themselves, they will provide the audio visual thing they will ticket things they will agree to sign up with exactly the business methodology we have we have and propose. They're not just doing their own thing. They're aligned and when we do an event in September, we can send collect media from them, they can be trained up and everything. And so you're getting this 100 leaders and how we do that and where we go and how that aligns with the market segmentation analysis. So if it is digital arts and tools, we make sure that we have gone to the right universities globally. And we've got the right digital personas and we've got an onboarding process for them. Just really establishing that that we have a clear understanding of that because I'm saying it, but I'm not all that.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:05 That's an agreed thing that Matthews doing that when he's looking at the market segmentation analysis, that it's that we're our target clearly, is to get these 100 and I call them spaces because it's not just an individual. It's an individual who can approach and onboard and help us with the research and the market segment segmentation and bring those people to also approach sponsors and what have you. It's like 100 people who gave us the global reach. Okay, so listen, I really think that there's a process here that can happen. That's really really nice, right? Because all of these there are overlaps in this strategy. Right? And right now, if we go into this thinking mode, like if I pick one, I don't pick the other one. Some of them are true, some of them are not true. So what I mean, what I kind of think about now is if you have this strategy, David named them, record them we will put them all together we because we need to basically I need to do that as well. And and we need to kind of look at what we what we need to do and then what we need to prioritize. And I think that's, that's something that's, that's what I'm saying, you know, the first step is you say something, I say something, Matthew, say something about, about how we would do this strategy, we can talk now. And yes, we need to follow it up and instead be its own heading and we need to then do it regularly. But right now, I just want enough feedback from people saying yeah, we It looks like we're doing that that's worth talking about. We're gonna talk about that one. And we're going to do that. And I want to get some feedback from particularly Matthew about that. How you see, for instance, how does that relate to what I've called the pipeline strategy, the pipeline strategy, to me is much more to do with who we invite to the events. That would be in September, right? It's the audience. It's our business audience, if you like.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:09 While the community leader strategy is our sort of

Unknown Speaker 1:21:15 our event partners or something like that. And so kind of meta strategy or there are early adopters, if you could say it that way, but just aligning this community leader strategy with what's been conceived of as going out looking at all the businesses looking at all the events, looking at the universities, who's interested in the lectures, which is sort of like it, that's our market segmentation that but but this other one is sort of like in order to really get to that market, we want to onboard 100 community leaders in that market segmentation. So it's a sort of meta market segmentation, because they're not necessarily our end paying customers. It's just, it's this kind of, yeah, I want to to have a common language between the three of us where we can see the pipeline relates to the community leaders strategy. Hey, I'm really sorry, I got a call. Because I talked to Victor I'm already late. So but I want to say something.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:20 This was an amazing meeting. And it was amazing. There's a lot of context. I want to share with you. I want to test this out. I haven't tested this out on such a long period of transcript. I want to test this out. I want to send you the meeting report.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:35 I talked to the big servers out there now. Basically, I'm talking to Victor about Alex and about the Agora thing. He wanted to talk to me about the Agora he wrote up something about the agora. Do you want to join David?

Unknown Speaker 1:22:51 I think it would be good. I do think it'd be good. I just try and be more in listening mode than I usually am. But I wouldn't do that. Okay, I'll send you the link. Bye bye. Okay, bye